Roundtable: Peters & Osman vs. Brown & Storms

2/22/2024

📣 Exciting news, AG supporters! This week (3/1/24) we are releasing a 4-hour (uncut) roundtable with Justin Peters, Jim Osman, Michael Brown, and Sam Storms. The topics of discussion center around the differences these men have in discerning false teachers and false prophets, and the work of the Holy Spirit today. As many of you know, Justin and Jim bring a cessationist view to the table, while Michael and Sam share a continuationist perspective on the gifts of the Spirit.

This discussion began with a phone call that Jim Osman made to Michael Brown's radio program in 2021, which you can watch below.

Jim’s phone call reveals some sharp differences in how he is more quick to label certain individuals as “false teachers” in comparison to Dr. Michael Brown. This led us to coordinate some behind-the-scenes conversations about these differences in Biblical discernment, which finally lead to this public discussion on April 1st, 2023.

Dr. Michael Brown unfortunately withdrew his involvement in our American Gospel: Spirit & Fire (AG3) docuseries a few months ago, leaving us unable to use the footage we recorded with him. Shortly after that was announced, he kindly gave us permission to publish this roundtable (originally intended to be part of AG3) in an uncut form, as long as it was separated from the AG3 project.

This discussion will be exclusively available to AGTV subscribers on Friday, March 1, 2024. A few weeks later, it will be accessible for free on both AGTV and YouTube. We pray that this conversation will be edifying, and leads to greater discernment within the body of Christ.

Link (Available 3/1/24): https://www.watchagtv.com/roundtable-peters-osman-vs-brown-storms

4 Comments

Benedict

3/1/2024 07:26:54 am

If Sid Roth is not aware, that he is a charlatan and a huckster, he is an inanimate vehicle for lying, deceiving spirits. Pick your choice — tertium non datur.

Aaron

3/1/2024 02:35:39 pm

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians that we are to judge those within the church (5:12-13). And the fallacy of Dr. Brown's again that we ought not judge those who are professing brothers overlooks two important things: 1) Paul did just that when he accused false teachers as those who disguise themselves as angels of light (2 Cor. 11:11-15) and accused two men by name of such and "delivered them to Satan", namely Hymenaeus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:18–20); and 2) Dr. Brown, himself, is judging just as strongly to say that he believes that these men he defending ARE saved. But, according to him, anyone who judges another man's salvation who isn't troubled by it has something fundamentally missing in their relationship with God, otherwise, they'd walk more carefully. Judging another man's salvation doesn't just mean judging that someone isn't saved by their fruit - it also means judging them into the faith.

Marilyn

3/16/2024 09:54:44 pm

I found the Roundtable discussion to reveal a few things, though hard to watch... that ...
1. holding up what a person says to the Scriptures is not easy to keep to, when the person is a close personal friend...Storms with Bickle, and Brown with Roth
2. defending a person on the basis of your relationship to them is really not being willing to look at what they are teaching, does it have its support in the Scriptures should be the true test... vouching for the character of someone you have not tested against the Scripture is really an unreliable vouch of character.
3. I found Dr. Brown`s point of the sins of Luther, to be a distraction to the discussion that was suppose to discern a false prophet today... or give what criteria he would deem someone to be a false prophet - who teaches doctrine aberrant to what God has said in the Scriptures. When he kept saying he never watches Sid Roth`s program, I thought, then how can he say he is not teaching false doctrine. If one closes his eyes to what someone is teaching (after all it is Sid Roth`s program so he is teaching what he wants by who he has on his program unless he confronts the false teacher on his program)... can he really say he is not a false prophet, ... taking the name of Christ to oneself, claiming to be His follower but then presenting a gospel Christ never taught... is that not taking His name in vain.
4. I did learn after, that Sam Storms wrote a statement on the allegations against Bickle dated March 7, 2024... posted on his site... where he begins with a list of people that he called `elders` of the Body... among the list was a woman... and even though Storms had defined (on his church website), that the office of an elder was for men only.... his list of elders included a woman on the Joint Statement he wrote and referred to them as elders. So it appears to me that he says one thing, but in practice he affirms another... the woman was listed with her husband, but when I tried to find out more about her, she is considered by others with the Kansas City Church... which I think is referred to as Rock Tribe... she is most definitely considered to be a leader over men as a elder or pastor would shepherd the congregation.
5. I am a Christian woman, of a Baptist Reform church, and I have for a few years now been helped by the ministry of godly teachers faithful to preach the Word, those like, Justin Peters, Jim Osman, Phil Johnson, Mike Riccardi, and John MacArthur, I am so thankful I have been kept from such craziness... for early in my life my Mom taught me to memorize the Word of God, and the truth of God has been my counsel...my rod and my staff. It is the plumbline for all things in the Christian life....and as in Colossians Paul again and again instructs the brethren with the gospel of God, the truth, which came to them just as in all the world, and just as they learned it ... they were to continue in it... not as if they were living in the world were they to be living according to the elementary teachings of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Laura Carr

3/20/2024 08:38:58 am

My reformed friends:

Were you able to quickly pick out that Ravi Zacharias was sexually and morally disturbed? That he was running a sex trafficking ring for his own purposes utilizing ministry to cover for it?

Where were your awesome powers of discernment then!?

As far as I know, Sid Roth isn't either of those and hasn't done such things--although you never know what time may reveal for anyone, yourselves included.

Was Ravi a saved believer?

I actually would posit that he was, but ultimately I--and you--won't know that until
we reach the other side.

There are many people who have professed to know Jesus that, as I have gotten to know them and the material that comes out of them, I strongly question the validity of that faith.

However, I also know something else.

We are not perfected at the time of accepting Jesus as our savior. We are, in the heavenlies, perfected, but as the Reformed community is so happy to say, "we are but filthy rags, sinners saved by grace." Actually, we are covered in Jesus' perfect righteousness, clothed in white, if you want to get scriptural about it--but I will say, we certainly still can sin after Jesus is made Lord of our hearts.

Here's why.

Because it's like the Land.

When Israel crossed the Red Sea, she had been delivered, she had put the blood of the lamb over the lintel of her door and was passed over by the spirit of death. After she crossed the desert, she was to enter the land that in deed was hers--God had in the heavenlies given it to her completely. He had also given her everything she needed to make it hers. But there were giants in the land. He didn't clear them out before the Israelites. They didn't walk into their land scot-free. God actually did this on purpose, so that the Israelites could healthily grow into their land, rather than be overwhelmed by too much of it at once. The Scriptures say, "And the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you little by little; you will be unable to destroy them at once, lest the beasts of the field become too numerous for you."

Also, the Scriptures are explicit in saying that not all Israel, even those who passed through the Exodus, were true Israel. Who knew who was who? Who knows even to this day?

Our land rests in our own being. Our cup, as Jesus might have called it. The heart, the soul, the mind, the spirit. Everything God has chosen to house mysteriously in our brains and nervous systems, connected to the greater body itself.

There can be giants that dwell in a man's heart that has been genuinely given to God that he has not yet dealt with. That perhaps, like Israel, he allowed to remain in the land, rather than going up to battle against it, as God would have a man do.

It does not mean you make that man a leader over a ministry, if the evil that comes out of that man's heart makes him unfit for such a position. But it does mean that perhaps--just perhaps--things aren't always so black and white as our religious hearts would like them to be. The wheat and the tares grow up next to one another, often indiscernibly so--this is why MANY will come to Him and say Lord, didn't I do this in Your name, and He will say, depart from Me, I never knew you.

You CAN and OUGHT to judge the fruits that come out of a person, and if between you and the Spirit of the Lord who lives within you, decide that you do not believe that fruit comes from Him, you can make choices about how you treat that person. Do you treat them as one of the unsaved? Do you confront and perhaps remove from ministry? Do you simply keep away because their unhealthiness is nothing you want anything to do with? Whatever it may be--there are more situations than I can cover in this place. But, though I have many whose salvation I question, who I am no longer in relationship with because I do not align with the fruit they produce at this time, I am still willing to find that they knew Him all along and let giants run rampant on their land. I hope they might choose to fight and remove those giants with God's intel and power. That IS the power of the Cross!

Your religiosity makes me question what lives inside of you. It was the Pharisees--but mind you, not all!--who did not really know their God. They knew the law, they "knew" the Scriptures, and they used it woodenly. Black and white. To their own ends. To their own demise. They put Jesus to death, who died outside the camp, because He did not fit their preconceived notions of who God is.

Be careful.

"Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil."

This Scripture does not say all prophecy is of God, but it also says to not treat prophecy with contempt--because some prophecy IS of God. I saw contempt at this roundtable.

Can you show me an explicit Scripture that says that prophecy is out in this "dispensation" (which also is a word you can't find in Scripture. You can't find the words sola sc

Brandon Kimber

Brandon is the director of American Gospel series, and President of the streaming service AGTV.

Roundtable: Peters & Osman vs. Brown & Storms

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Brandon Kimber

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